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Old 07-23-2010, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Greaseless Clutch

Ok, so I read the thread in the maintenance section. There was a whole lot to read. I have a couple of questions. First of all is all the talk about the roller weights. I am curious as to what the different weights do for performance. Like what is the differance between a 16 g weight and a 22 g weight performance wise. I have an EPI big tire clutch kit in mine. What size weights should I be getting.

Also, since it was a while ago that it was posted, I wanted to hear of some long term opinions and I would like to know what I would need to get to run greaseless. My big problem here is that we have a lot of water and swamp. I would tend to think that a greaseless clutch would stop the clutch from being useless after getting water in it. I am doing a big overhaul of the bike and I plan to put some snorkels, but still would be an extra safe quard.

So if Gunny, Bluesman or Bob could give a little info on it that would be great!!
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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ok lets see you need the cam plate, cam sliders, and roller weights

as far as weightsI'm not sure its been discussed before but know one seems to have the exact answer. here is howI think it goes

the lighter weights takeless centrifugal force to push them out and engage the cam plate but use less power

heavier weights engage faster but require more power to pushthem out its kind of like a stall converter on a car

the best bet is a good happy medium unless you have the power to push the heavy weights



as far as your idea to not screw up the clutch when water hits in in theory it will work but in reality it will be the same the dirt will stick to the Teflon on the weights and cause problems

and the main problem when you drown the clutch is not the clutch it is the belt when wet it just slips on the sheaves and you get maybe 20mph all the way back to the truck (don't ask) LOL



as far as longterm gunny would be the one to talk to on that one I still have not pulled mine out yet to look at them

h3ll my bike hasn't been out for 7 months anyway LOL
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I still love the greasless setup,if you are happy with the clutch kit you have now just buy the same weight size in the greaseless rollers. Ranger is correct,you need a 700 cam plate,cam plate sliders and the roller weights,not the sliding ODweights. Hunterworks has all of that stuff.

I have gotten some muddy water in there on the greasless setup and I can tell you if you pull your drainplug and let the water drain out you can ride it all day afterwords as long as you don't get any real thick mud or rocks or anything in there. The setup is alot easier to clean out too without all the grease in there. I say go for it!!!
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Ahhhh ... more greaseless talk ........ Let me put it in simple terms ............. I'll never run with grease again ......... ever !!

Besides Hunterworks for greaseless a setup, now there's UTVCrap that sells the parts as well ... and they are cheaper ....

www.hunterworks.com/inc/sdetail/34145 .... and www.utvinc.com/YAMAHA-GRIZZLY

When it comes to rollers weights,Hunterworks sells two weights - 16 grs & 18 grs. UTVCrap sells them in the following weights - 12 grs, 14 grs, 16 grs, & 18 grs.

Stock rollers in a 660 Grizz weigh in at 17.9 grs. Ihad a Dalton clutch kit in (one of my first mods) for 27 to 28 inch tires above 3000 ft elevation, they came in at 17.1 grs.

Then I bought a machined sheave from Fix Power Sports (for a Rhino), that came with new rollers, they came in at 16.1 grs. (personally, I didn't like that weight at all) ... The Grizz would run like a demon ... but I never had a long enough area to really run it to the top. However, the engine breaking sucked ... casue there wasn't any !!

I've been playing around with different weights and like weights that are 22.7 grs (each) ... but you can't get'em any longer from the above companies. So I've ordered them right from the factory which is in Taiwan. Kinda pricey ... but amI to do ?? And, I just put some 25 gr weights in and as soon as I get my bike back together (my winch sh*t the bed !!) ... I'm gonna try them out.

BTW... the company doesn't sell 22.7 gr weights ... I had to buy a set of 25 gr ones, take them apart & drill the weight to lighten it up. (That's another story if anyone ever does that, let me know)

www.unionmaterial.com/rollerweight6.htm

Now you ask, what do the heavier weights do ?? Well, first, you lose top end speed, so if ya like to go fast (say, above 45 or 50 mph), you may not like these. But they will get you there very quickly ... IMO. .... Very snappy off the line ... you can crawl way better, and that's what I like to do. And the engine breaking is greatly improved.

Iwant to also say, when I ran my tracks last winter, I started out with the 22.7 gr weights in. Then went to 18 gr weights ... and liked it better. This winter I'm gonna put in some 16 gr weights & see how it acts ... but remember, the tracks have a built in gear reduction & I feel I need more top end speed ..... so we'll see when the snow flies !!!

But at $50 to $65 a pop, it's kinda pricey to experiment .... unless yer like me & say, ............ WOOHOO!!! .......... well, that isn't exactly what I say, but I can't use the words I normally use ........ Savvy ??
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Nice link to the new source Gunny,thanks for the hookup! Looks like the sell greaseless sliders for the 660 there too,does that mean you don't have to use the 700 cam plate?
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well, that just about answers my questions guys...lol. Thanks for all the info. I am taking the clutch apart to change the belt and regrease. But, I think I might order the greaseless setup and try it out.

Gunny, its not too often you will see me at 50-60 mph. Hitting a stump or a rock at that speed makes me arsehole pucker. Therefore I think I will go with the heavier weights. I like doing alot of rock crawling, so the better crawling and engine braking is the way to go.

I know I stirred up more talk on the clutch, but I just wanted to see how everyone liked it after having it in for a year or so now.

Since I have ya all on here I will ask another question.

I haven't been on here in a while so I miss alot of talk about good mods or better part replacement. What are some parts that can be swapped out from other bikes (Rhino or the 450 racer) that actually up the performance.

I see that people are running shocks from the 450 in the front. I see from the greaseless thread that some are running the machined sheave from the Rhino....why from the Rhino. Also, what are some other parts that can be interchanged from model to model that will help performance of fuel or handeling etc.?
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Just messaged a guy from utvinc.com and he said that you can now use the 660 cam plate. Just need to buy the rollers.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You bet Bluesman ... I found this by accident a while back & should have posted it then ... but, this was a great time to post without do'in another thread myself

Mudjunkie ... when it comes to "What will wrok from another whatever ?" ... some of this is trial & error. But inmy case, I've been kinda lucky, as Jasson has been as well. And some of the stuff I've done I got the idea from Jasson. But here goes on what "I"have on my Grizz for performance ...

The best & cheapest overall mod for performance I think is the machined sheave. Now, the reason I picked the Rhino one is ... back in early 2007 (I think) I bought traccks ... and this is when my pocket book went "OUCH!"cause everything I've done since then, is because of tracks. ............... ANYWAY............ with the tracks on & all the stuff on my bike along with extra snow I calcuated my Grizz was pushing close to 1000 lbs or more. (I know a guy in Canada who weighted his Grizz on a scale after an all day ride in kinda wet snow, his Grizz weighted in at 1420 lbs !!)

So I had done some reading about machined sheaves & decided to go with one from Fix Power Sports since that's where I got my new CDI. BUT, they didn't make one for a Grizz. I figured the motor in a 660 Rhino was the same as a 660 Grizzly .......... so ..... WHYNOT!!?? ........... and I've never looked back & I love it. One thing about machined sheaves. Some are machined on the face, and some are machined inside the areas where the rollers ride. The one I have is machined on the face. There are lots of places to get machined sheaves now or to have your stock one machined. Here's a link to a new one & this guy does do Grizzlies. airdamclutches.com/ .... And here's the link for the one I have ...

www.fixpowersports.com/pages/customcatalogs/viewproductdetail/326/810/1521/7299/1/0/1/yamaha-660-rhino-clutch-kit.aspx

The second mod I would recommend is a new CDI box. But as far as I know, ya need one for a Grizzly. Mine is from Fix Power Sports, but if Iwas to do it again, I'd try a Dyna-Tech one as I've heard great things about those CDI's. Look on E-bay for your bike ...cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... or .... www.atomicmall.com/view.php ... or ... us.ebid.net/for-sale/yamaha-grizzly-660-dyna-fs-dynatek-cdi-ignition-box-15120817.htm

Now, since yer gonna redo the grease clutch but want heavier weights ... try some 10 or 20 gr rollers from EPI ... but use very little grease & see what ya think. Now you'll need to order one set of weights that have the nylon shells & then you can order any of these weight & swap them out (just using the nylon shells) ... and I'm gonna order some of these & see if they'll fit inside the greaseless rollers ... www.erlandsonperformance.com/mm5/merchant.mvc

And you'll want to get a new secondary spring. Mine is a Dalton pink one ... I think Bluesman is using an EPIwhite one .... Bluesman ... Ranger ... what are you guys runn'in ?? www.erlandsonperformance.com/mm5/merchant.mvc

And kits ... www.erlandsonperformance.com/mm5/merchant.mvc ... www.daltonindustries.com/products_yamaha_clutchkits.asp ... scroll down to the secondary springs ... www.daltonindustries.com/products_components_tools.asp

One nice "Other bike part' you can put in yer Grizzly is the Raptor cam. I have one in my Grizz & I think it's a great addition.

That'll get ya started ... then you can get a pipe & new air filter setup.

Any of you other guys have any suggestions for the Mud dude ??
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Haha, mud dude, I like it.Thanks for the info Gunny. I will definately be getting the CDI. Looks like I will also get the machined sheave also. Like I stated earlier, I want to overhaul the bike now while its all apart and get er all done now. Then I can just ride it.....lol, like thats gonna happen, always something else to "try".

Thanks for all the info, and I better give the wife a heads up on all the UPS trucks that will be stopping by...she is gonna kill me!!!!
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yeah jason is the man when it comes to experimenting with different parts off diffm bikes

Gunny I believe bluesman is running a blue epi spring
That's what I had in mine but with my 27" mudlites it was slugish on takeoff so I put an orange epi spring in and it helped a bunch

That and my hunterworks 18g rollers and high comp piston stage 1 cam my grizz is/was an animal
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