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Discussion Starter #1
I only have 1.4 hours and 2.8 miles on my Grizzly (I know I need to get out and ride). The oil level is way overfull from the factory. I wrote the dealer, he checked 2 new 660s and said the oil level was at the same overfull mark as mine.

The Service Manager said don't worry about it. However, as a former trained mechanic with a 2-year automotive degree, I know that too much oil causes the piston to act as an egg beater to churn the oil into foam. Foamy oil is a very poor lubricator. Perhaps the factory mechanics expect some oil bypass past the ring lands during break-in and add some more to ensure adequate lubrication for the first 20 hours. This might be the thinking based on the the new style rings that were supposed to be installed in the 2006 Models because of the complaints from owners of 2005 and earlier Models (I just read that somewhere, not sure the new style rings are a fact.) However, it would be good to know if the factory does that purposely and should send out a Service Bulletin or an Advisory as such to dealers to give peace of mind to folks like me that never overfill crankcases, automatic/manual transmissions, differentials, etc.


I actually first noticed the overfill as soon as I pulled the dipstick and noticed that the oil level was visibly above the crankcase port chamfer area and it is very unusual for oil levels to exceed that line on any engine I have ever checked.

Here is the procedure I followed with the Grizz perfectly level and without screwing the dipstick in but with it resting on the shoulder of the port:

I checked the oil cold, warm, and hot and the level is the same: 1/2 inch above the crosshatched area on the dipstick. That is way overfull. I checked it:

Cold after sitting overnight and for several days = 1/2 inch above full mark



20 minutes of drain down time after a 15 min run = 1/2 inch above full mark



After a 5 minute idle + 1/2 inch above full mark



Immediately after stopping. Within a minute the level was 1/4 inch above full then 1/2 inch above within less than 5 minutes



Did any of you notice the overfull oil level on your brand new 660s and would you recommend draining some out. I do not want to end up with a quad that uses oil.

Thanks,
Ron
 

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sounds like you are checking it right,,,, think I would drain some out if it were me,,,, a little over and i think you would be ok,,, but a half inch sounds like way too much,,,,, ,,,,good luck,,,, ,,,, ,,,, cg
 

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I agree with CG, I would drain some out as well, my 05 came from the dealer at the full mark only. Have you loosened the check screw on the right side of the engine when it is running to make sure the oil is circulating? Good luck.....Irv
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Irv,

No, I have not loosened the check screw...thanks for that tip.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Irv,

Where exactly is that check screw?

Thanks,
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #6
When any of you have time, please respond about your oil level on your dipstick at different times even after adding the 2.11 qts. after an oil and filter change. I would really like to get this resolved.

I sent this e-mail to my dealer this morning:

On pages 8-15 and 8-16 of the Grizzly Owner's Manual (LIT-11626-19-60) it states: To Check the engine oil level:

1. Remove panel..

2. Place ATV on level surface

3. Start the engine, warm it up for SEVERAL minutes, and then turn it off.


(Note definition of SEVERAL: Consisting of a number more than two or three but less than many)


4. Wait a FEW minutes until the oil settles.

(Note definition of FEW: Being more than one but indefinitely small in number)


5. ....wipe dipstick with a clean rag.

6. Insert the dipstick in the oil filler hole (without screwing it in), and then remove it again to check the oil level.


The engine oil should be between the minimum and maximum level marks. The diagram clearly shows the level should be within the Min/Max crosshatched area. I followed this procedure and it was still 1/2 above the Max mark. At the following times:



1 minute: Most of the oil had returned to the crankcase



2 minutes: Almost all of the oil had returned



3 minutes: All of the oil had returned to the very high mark.



I checked 3 ATV forums about 660s on this issue and there is a lot of confusion. Most say there level is in the crosshatched area and some said their high, apparently overfilled, level is the same as mine even after adding the 2.11 quarts of oil after an oil change. Many people have the same concern and questions I do.


I siphoned 13 ounces (400 ml) of oil from my crankcase and the level is still above the max mark and the "shoulder ring" above the crosshatched area.


A few minutes ago this morning I started my engine up after it set overnight, let it run for 3 minutes (drove 50 feet to a very level spot I always use). The oil level was after removing 13 ounces yesterday:


2 minutes: just less than full in the crosshatched area about 3/4ths full


5 minutes: it was at the full mark at top of crosshatched area


10 minutes: back to the still overfull mark (after siphoning 13 ounces off yesterday) to a point above the "circular shoulder above the crosshatched area and touching the small slightly raised embossed circle on the dipstick on the crosshatched side of the dipstick (again above the circular shoulder or "collar", you have to look closely to see this circle).


On page 8-19 on the Owner's Manual the Oil quantity is 2.11 US qt. When I change my oil and filter at 20 hours do I add this full 2.11 qt. amount even if it raises the level to the 1/2 inch overfull level condition that my engine was when I got it?


Should I put the 13 ounces of new oil back in now to raise the level back up to the high 1/2 inch exceeding the level the manual states and I noted above?


I need something in writing since I am concerned about the warranty.


Please check with Dwayne again and Yamaha then get back with me ASAP. I have only driven 3 miles and have just 1.9 hours of actual engine running time on the hour meter. I do not want to run the engine again until I get this issue resolved.


Could you run one of the other new Grizzlys again following the directions stated in the manual then check the oil then let me know what you find?


Your business sells many Grizzlys and I have already recommended you to many others for fair prices. Resolving this issue will help many people who have the same concerns/questions I have. I am a frequent poster and reader on ATV forums because I try to learn from others,. especially from their mistakes.


Yesterday, I tried to contact someone at Yamaha.com, but they only have a phone number, no e-mail.

END.


This should be a simple issue and not this difficult. You Grizzly owners here should be able help resolve this issue.

Thanks,
Ron
 

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ATVrk, the oil check screw/bolt is on the right side of the engine(seated on quad)It is a small screw/bolt which is up high on the cylinder barrel below the cylinder head, which you can remove with a standard screwdriver. Start your quad up & just loosen it slightly until oil comes out and screw it back in. If oil comes out you know your pump is circulating oil where it should be.

Out of curiousty, what type of oil filter are you using? It sounds like you filter is not holding back the oil like it should when the engine is shut off?
I haven't run in to this problem myself but I would be concerned as you are about it. The level has to be fairly accurate in order for it to do it's job peoperly. Good luck ATVrk.........Irv
 

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I'm thinkin your worried about a minor issue. Thousands of us Grizzly owners have changed our oil and based it on the dipstick level. No harm because of it, just base the amount of oil needed by the dipstick instead of the exact decimal point suggested. It was probably just friday afternoon when they originally filled your Grizz and poured in too much in the rush. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Irv: thanks for the clarification. I am using the stock factory-installed filter since I only have 1.9 hours on my engine to date.

Where do you keep your oil level? In the crosshatched area even though it is less than the recommended 2.11 quarts on refill?


Addicted2mud: I understand but many others have noticed the same issue. When I change oil I will add about 1.75 quarts then check the level following the manual's procedure then add oil to the full mark and no higher even if 2.11 quarts recommended capacity is not reached.

I have worked professionally as a mechanic and have a 2-year degree (honor grad). Now that does not mean I am the best and the brighest but it does show I am basically good practically and theoretically. I know it is very harmful to engines to overfill them with oil and most owner's manuals state such.

Where do you keep your oil level? In the crosshatched area even though it is less than the recommended 2.11 quarts on refill?


I respectfully appreciate all comments and yes I am a bit compulsive and perhaps obsessive over this because I keep my equipment in top condition and will keep this Grizz forever as I have the 1972 Chevy 4X4 I purchased new 34 years ago.

Thanks
 

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ATVrk, I fill mine exactly to the top lip above the hatched marks(Max full)I think it is fairly close by the time I am done to 2.11? Mine is an 05 but I don't think they changed anything too drastic between the 2 years? That is a pecuilar situation?

I would be confused and concerned too ATVrk, I like to keep my toys and vehicles running their best as well. Hopefully you find resolve from Yamaha or can figure out what is going on? I think as long as you had the 2 full quarts in there and it stayed on that top lip mark you would be ok? I know it is early but maybe try an oil & filter change and see if the results change?
I have checked mine shortly after shutting it off and again the next day and there is never(slight) any change in the 2 readings.........Irv
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the oil level information Irv.

Could you, and others also, do the following if/when you have time?

Check the oil level when your engine is STONE COLD (after sitting overnight)

Run the engine for 3 to 5 minutes

Check Level:

At one minute:

At 3 minutes:

Finally at 5 minutes (when almost all the oil should have drained back):


This would give a baseline to follow and would be consistent with the owner's manual guidelines.

Thanks,
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Here are my measurements on a 78 degree day in Arizona.

To ensure the Grizz was perfectly level I put a Universal Protractor Plumb & Level on the trailer hitch and the front skid at the top horizontal service. I also checked the front to back level on the foot panels (although that plane is less critical)

Measurements:

Stone cold after sitting overnight: This was the highest level, just above the slightly raised "circle" (from the manufacturing process?, on the same side as the crosshatched area), that is above the round "collar" and well above the crosshatched area. This level is about 3/8" above the Maximum levelon the dipstick. The oil is visible in the oil filler hole at just below the outside lip of the chamfer looking down in the bore.

Ran (idled & drove 100 feet) for 3 minutes

One minute: just about 1/2 way up on crosshatched area

Two minutes: Almost at full mark

Three minutes: At full mark. (in my case above full just above the collar or shoulder above the crosshatched area.

After driving 1 mile:

At full mark (overfull in my case) within 1 minute or less drain down time!

So, my procedure will be to check the oil level several times a day depending conditions and use and check at least at the end of the day or ride to use that as baseline and be ready for the next day. Otherwise to check it the next morning would waste fuel on the 3 minute idle.

In cold weather checking in the morning would likely give a low oil reading since the oil would be in a thicker, more viscid condition after the same 3 minute or so idle and the oil would not flow as quickly back to the crankcase before checking.

BTW, as a former mechanic, the issue of whether to check the oil when it is hot or cold is a controversial one. I check at both conditions. Ford recommends checking when the oil is warm and only add oil if is the lowest minimum mark to prevent destructive overfilling. Diesels are especially problematic because a large amount of oil often stays in the oil galleries in the the upper reaches of the engine and at other times it mostly drains backdown into the crankcase. Ask any Ford diesel owner about this minor frustration, if he has bothered to notice at all. The important thing is to make sure the oil is within the crosshatced area when the engine is at FULL operating temperature. I will apply this same standard procedure to my Grizzly as well. I will also occasionally check it Cold.

My conclusion: My new Grizz was overfilled 1/2 quart at the factory or dealership; that is about 25% of the total amount the crankcase holds. I have seen blown rear main seals on vehicles from overfilling with oil and commonly fouled plugs. No telling what the oil in a foam condition does, besides scuffing of metal surfaces, especially the piston rings. I could not say the overfilled condition did any harm, but that is not what the manual states to do and by following it there should be no questions if warranty is ever an issue.

I will not reinstall the 13 ounces I siphoned off. The oil level is now "acceptible" and slightly overfull.

Yes, I am compulsive about such things. One main reason this was such a concern to me were the stories of many previous models of Grizzlies being oil consumers. I thought that if all were shipped overfull on some rigs that might have contributed to the oil use. Also, others on several forums had the same questions about proper oil levels.

I think I might finally be through, unless you know of a Yamaha design engineer I could talk to...

Thanks

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well, I changed my oil yesterday at 213 miles. I often let my oil drain for several hours. I added 1.75 quarts (1 qt. 24 oz.)and the level showed full, but I knew this was still under what was required and was low. I added another 4 ozs to 1 qt. 28 oz. and ran the engine for < 2 minutes. The level was just touching the crosshatched area. I added 4 more ounces for a total of 2 quarts. I rode the Grizz for 4 minutes then checked the oil level after waiting 5 minutes. At 2 quarts it was half way up the crosshatched area. I added the final 4 oz. for a total of 2.1 quarts [(with filter change)(.1 qt. is about 3-4 oz.)] that is recommended by Yamaha. The level came to the top of the crosshatched area at the full mark. So, when I got my Grizzly from the factory/dealer it was a full 1/2 quart (16 oz.) over full and I am glad I siphoned 13 oz. off. My Grizz DID NOT use any oil after I siphoned the excess off until I did the oil change. I have been driving in 4WD, slow-go rough roads, and up to 35 mph on better roads in 98 degree desert heat. I am using Yamalube SAE 20W-40/API SJ oil. This ends the oil question saga and perhaps others can learn from this experience: Add the recommended amount of oil and don't trust the "mechanics/setup guys" at the dealership to deliver a new Grizzly with the proper oil level. Check the oil when it is warm (not hot and very expanded) after a 3-5 minute ride, and wait about 5 minutes for all the oil to drain back down from the upper oil galleries. Checking the oil level the first thing in the morning while the Grizz is Stone Cold will give a good reference point because on my rig the level is very close to the warm engine level. End of story. Ron
 

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Thanks for the update Ron, glad to hear you got a handle on it. Now are you going to get these same mechanics to check/adjust your valves? LOL. Sorry, I had to ask.........Irv
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ha! This will be a different dealer and I am going to quiz them first, let them use my OEM Service Manual, and look over their shoulder, if possible.

I can visualize it now: Feeler gauge, we don't use them thangs, we juss take a gud look at 'um an stick a match book in 'tween um fur gud maysure an snug the nut down on that. If the book tears off betwixt the tappets and the rocker then they's juss rite affer the cardboard wears out.
 

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dont forget to tell them to put some chew spit on the rockers!!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
bobmmor

Now this is scary: I acturally started to write the "chaw spit" part earlier as a source of valve rocker lubrication!. You think too much like a shadetree mechanic hick to be a Northerner from Mass. Are you sure you ain't a transplanted Southerner?

Now, I ain't no hick naythur, but I growed up 'round enuf of 'um. Not quite Deliverance but....

Thanks for the laugh.
 

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nau ron im from northeast. its not my mother my sister my wife country here bob m
 

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Guys interesting reading on the oil level checks, let me ask when you change your oil and filter do you do it when its hot or cold, the reason I ask is I have almost 5500 miles on my 04 always added the 2.1 amount, and used yamaha filters. When changing the oil and filter hot the filter always made a mess down the side of the engine, changing it cold the day after a ride no oil out of the filter, leads me to think that the oil all leaves the filter as it sits overnight, no anti drain back valve or its not functioning as it should therefore the oil in the morning checked before you ride will be higher than when it is run as there will be oil in the filter that hasn't had a chance to drain back into the crankcase yet. I check mine before I start it and it is about 3/8 to 1/2 inch above the cold mark, when I get it home it will be at the correct level as I check it right away warm, always did it that way with my dry sump XR650L as that was a bugger to get a consistant oil reading on. And by the way mine consumes oil, I have gone back to yamalube and am trying that to see if some or all of the oil usage goes away. Been using synthetic since the first oil change and it has always used some oil so I always check my oil level. No smoke no plug problem but it goes somewhere. Have just switched it back to yamalube and haven't had a chance to ride it much so the jury is out on that yet. Danny
 

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Discussion Starter #20
dannyk:

I change my oil hot. I always let it drain at least 1 to 2 hours or often overnight to remove all the oil. I remove (or unscrew and let in sit in the hole) the oil filler cap/dipstick to avoid any chance of a vacuum and cover the port/cap with a clean rag to keep dust out. I unscrew the oil filter after 1 hour of draining to give the oil a chance to drain back into the crankcase. After putting a paper towel under the filter, I first just barely break the filter seal to release the vacuum and I will notice more oil dripping out of the crankcase drain port from this oil draining back after the vacuum is released. I then fully unscrew the filter, with the paper towel still between the oil filter cartridge and the engine, and I get at most 1-2 tablespoons of oil out of the engine oil filter orifice and the towel catches it. After removing the filter there is a small recess on the bottom of the filter/engine mating surface that you can push the paper towel in to absorb the excess oil in that recess.

I would never recommend draining oil cold because the cold oil clings to the metal and all the impurities with it. You could leave 3 to 4 oz. in the engine that way. Simple physics dictates draining oil warm or hot.

My stone cold oil level after sitting overnight is the same as checking my warm engine after a 4-5 minute run and a 5 minute drain back time before checking the level.

2.1 quarts measures to the top of the crosshatched area on the dipstick, just where it should be on my 2006 Grizzly.

Ron
 
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